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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, I’m new here, so just feeling my way around the forum, but perhaps predictably I have joined to pick people’s brains, if I may please?

Unless I am talked out of it I plan to upgrade from a Shogun to a T3, 2019/2020 plate, in the next few weeks subject only to a test drive when I can get one. My homework tells me the T3 is the car to go for having I think researched all the 3+ tonne tow car options, including the Rexton (sorry!) And I am not going back to Land Rovers either! I do a lot of road miles, quite a bit of track and field (for work) but no longer need to climb mountains as I did in Disco’s & Series for 30 years. And I don’t need seven seats. I need the space they otherwise take up. I tow a 3 tonne gross twin axle flat bed trailer, also a two tonne twin axle caravan, and launch boats down slippery slipways!

On the face of it an SEL would suit me. I prefer smaller rims / deeper profile tyres. I prefer switches to touch screens and I don’t need too much tech. I have a bad back and do long journeys and lots of country roads so ride quality is important to me.

The problem is that there don’t seem to be too many SEL’s about and all the dealers are too busy to encourage multiple test drives, let alone extended test drives, until they feel they are on the brink of closing the deal. Also they keep trying to sell me R-Lines.

I would much appreciate answers to a few questions from you guys.

1. Will the SEL be a better ride than an R-Line? I guess I could put 18” wheels on an R-Line, and my favourite Grabber AT3’s , and that might soften it up, but I believe that the R has a different suspension setup as well. As a guide, I am not a boy racer and I find the ride in the Shogun is adequate, although not as great as the Disco TD5’s on air that I had before that. Should I risk an R-Line and change the wheels if necessary (if that makes much difference?) or should I wait for an SEL to come up?

2. I have read that I must get a factory fit towbar to be sure that the necessary cooling mods have been done and that the install is all legal. I am quite happy to accept that advice since I have been caught out before by aftermarket towbar installers, unless anybody knows of a good installer who will do all the job inc. wiring properly? The amazing fact seems to be that for what is seemingly one of the best 3.5t tow cars now available there are very few used ones around with factory tow bars!

3. 231 or 286? I’m used to 200 hp, although a bit more would be nice, but I see that the 231 produces max torque at lower revs than the 286. Does that help towing? Is it worth going to the 286.
I will be sad to lose my low ratio box but to be honest nowadays I mostly only shift to low to exercise the selectors, but perhaps the lower down torque of the 231 compensates??

Many thanks in advance for any wisdom that might help me.

BG
 

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Just to confuse you, as far as the car forums are concerned you aren't looking for a T3 - you are looking for a T5!

As far as VW is concerned you are looking for a Generation 3 Touareg.

There was a facelift during Generation 1 production so the T2 followed the original T1 as VW marketed the facelift as "Touareg II" and the forums picked up the numbering sequence from there.

With the arrival of the much lighter Generation 2 Touareg, the first version is known as the T3 and the later facelift is known as the T4.

Thus the current Generation 3 Touareg is known as the T5.

If there is a facelift then that will be the T6.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Just to confuse you, as far as the car forums are concerned you aren't looking for a T3 - you are looking for a T5!

As far as VW is concerned you are looking for a Generation 3 Touareg.

There was a facelift during Generation 1 production so the T2 followed the original T1.

With the arrival of the much lighter Generation 2 Touareg, the first version is known as the T3 and the later facelift is known as the T4.

Thus the current Genrration 3 Touareg is known as the T5.

If there is a facelift that will be the T6.
Thanks for that! Slight confusion here between T3 and G3. Yes, it’s a T5 I need, just not sure which one!

Thanks. BG.
 

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Generation 2 cars supplied to the UK with a factory fitted towbar got an uprated 850 watt coolant fan over the standard 600 watt.

However there were some mis-builds so some Gen 2 cars that should have had 850s got 600s. For a time VW swapped the fans if owners complained. Now they won't.

Gen 3/T5 contributers are rare so far so I don't know if a car with an OEM towbar needs, and is supplied with, an uprated coolant fan or not.

It's no good asking dealer staff. They are pretty ignorant about Touaregs!

If you plan on doing a lot of towing - possibly somewhere warm - you really need to find out about this if you have to retrofit an aftermarket towbar.
 

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I ended up with an R-Line but on air suspension with 21" rims.
I drove and R-Line on coil springs and 20" rims and it was a harsh ride. You also lose any ground clearance benefits as it's lowered.

Before mine was delivered I was given an SEL Tech on 19" rims for two weeks or so. The ride was lovely, not overly wallowly but felt floaty enough to make a it a very relaxing ride.

Air suspension is the perfect compromise but if I'd not found one, an SEL would have been my second choice.

Some have reported issues with rear end sag when towing on the coil springs but I'm not sure if that's with the r-Line "sports" suspension or the SE/L suspension? Saying that there's plenty of people towing 2 tonne vans on coil springs with no issues. Both R-Line and SE/SEL
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks. The air suspension sounds nice but I had a lot of trouble with LR air bags, so not sure I want to pay extra for possible unreliability. KISS principle! I tend to keep cars for 200k miles.

Any thoughts on the 286 motor: is it worth it over the 231 hp one. Some people seem to say the 231 is ample?

BG
 

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I think the VW air suspension has been very reliable for some time. There's the argument that you can suffer a broken coil just as easily. Accepted air is more complex system.

Never driven the 231 so can't compare. The 231 reaches it's max torque of 500NM lower in the rev range than the 286's -edit- maximum -edit- . However the 286 reaches 500NM at the same rpm and goes on to reach it's peak of 600NM 500 or so rpm later.
 

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Hi, I’m new here, so just feeling my way around the forum, but perhaps predictably I have joined to pick people’s brains, if I may please?

Unless I am talked out of it I plan to upgrade from a Shogun to a T3, 2019/2020 plate, in the next few weeks subject only to a test drive when I can get one. My homework tells me the T3 is the car to go for having I think researched all the 3+ tonne tow car options, including the Rexton (sorry!) And I am not going back to Land Rovers either! I do a lot of road miles, quite a bit of track and field (for work) but no longer need to climb mountains as I did in Disco’s & Series for 30 years. And I don’t need seven seats. I need the space they otherwise take up. I tow a 3 tonne gross twin axle flat bed trailer, also a two tonne twin axle caravan, and launch boats down slippery slipways!

On the face of it an SEL would suit me. I prefer smaller rims / deeper profile tyres. I prefer switches to touch screens and I don’t need too much tech. I have a bad back and do long journeys and lots of country roads so ride quality is important to me.

The problem is that there don’t seem to be too many SEL’s about and all the dealers are too busy to encourage multiple test drives, let alone extended test drives, until they feel they are on the brink of closing the deal. Also they keep trying to sell me R-Lines.

I would much appreciate answers to a few questions from you guys.

1. Will the SEL be a better ride than an R-Line? I guess I could put 18” wheels on an R-Line, and my favourite Grabber AT3’s , and that might soften it up, but I believe that the R has a different suspension setup as well. As a guide, I am not a boy racer and I find the ride in the Shogun is adequate, although not as great as the Disco TD5’s on air that I had before that. Should I risk an R-Line and change the wheels if necessary (if that makes much difference?) or should I wait for an SEL to come up?

2. I have read that I must get a factory fit towbar to be sure that the necessary cooling mods have been done and that the install is all legal. I am quite happy to accept that advice since I have been caught out before by aftermarket towbar installers, unless anybody knows of a good installer who will do all the job inc. wiring properly? The amazing fact seems to be that for what is seemingly one of the best 3.5t tow cars now available there are very few used ones around with factory tow bars!

3. 231 or 286? I’m used to 200 hp, although a bit more would be nice, but I see that the 231 produces max torque at lower revs than the 286. Does that help towing? Is it worth going to the 286.
I will be sad to lose my low ratio box but to be honest nowadays I mostly only shift to low to exercise the selectors, but perhaps the lower down torque of the 231 compensates??

Many thanks in advance for any wisdom that might help me.

BG
I’ve had my SEL tec 231 for past 16 months from new, couldn’t be happier. If I did change, I’d be more than happy to keep the same engine, quick enough for anything I want to do. It’s so smooth and economical, most runs low 40mpg, have known high 40’s when I cruise it like a limo! I’m getting those figures on progressive driving, like to use my cars.
As per the spec, I avoided anything with a sunroof, as had issues with new Tiguan roof, I’m sure there are many on here who haven’t had issues though.
Mine s on 19” tyres and the ride is perfect. I’m coming up to 17,000 miles and still on 5mm all round.
I don’t tow, so can’t advise on that. Happy hunting, definitely the best car I’ve ever owned.
 

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R line has "sports suspension" the ride is a bit crashy at low speed especially on the 20 inch wheels. I drove the 284 bhp and the 231 and ended up buying thr 231 bhp as it had way more options and I opulent tell much difference. Also a tdi tuning plug in box makes up 50bhp if you need it and the components are more than up to it.
If you don't like touch screens get the SEL. The touchscreen on the r line tech takes a bit of navigating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Great forum guys, and thanks for all the advice. I am still reading and learning, and coming round to thinking things like:

I don’t need a panoramic sunroof (I sold the last Disco because I got fed up with a wet bum, and if there is any truth at all in the towing/pano roof structural conflict then I certainly don’t want to know).

I don’t need tricky touch screens and menus.

I don’t need sports suspension and big wheels.

Therefore I don’t need R-line, even though that is what every dealer is trying to persuade me to buy because that is all they have to sell!

Also, as I have now read on other posts here and learnt from talking to towbar firms today (inc. P.F.J), nobody in the trade seems to know whether cooling upgrades are actually necessary for towing in the U.K. climate, but I don’t want the stress of worrying about an overheat. A more powerful fan does make sense. The early Disco’s had problems, not with overheating when towing, but when you had to stop in traffic, and I fitted big Kenlowes to those to keep the air flowing. I guess like everything else in cars the eco figures are king and VW perhaps fit small fans because few people tow and the smaller fan reduces the CO2.

So any more advice is greatly welcomed and appreciated, and in the meantime I will keep looking for the right SEL, 231 or 286, with f/f towbar. I wish they still made Shogun’s - life would be much simpler! Just order another!

Thanks!

BG
 

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There's a black 2018 sel with tow bar for sale on auto trader at the moment. I saw it when I was looking 2 weeks ago before I bought my R line Tech. It's still for sale by the looks of it
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks Bott.

If it’s the one at Motorpoint it’s still for sale at the moment but may not be in the morning. Just waiting on a phone call before I put a deposit down. I’m only procrastinating because I am a bit old fashioned and like to look at things first! Are Motorpoint O.K?

BG
 

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I presume that is a VW warranty.

Personally I would factor in buying another year with VW in due course.
 

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Yes it was that one actually. I've not come across them as I'm based in Oxfordshire. Is the deposit refundable? I bought our car unseen just paid a refundable deposit. The garage was brilliant and had the car ready to drive away the same say I went to see it so I didn't waste a trip.
 

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Only comment would be the lack of used approved warranty and vague reassurance buying used approved gives.
They're asking top dollar for it but you're not getting the same deal you would if buying from a dealer. There doesn't appear to be any options on it apart from the tow bar. No reverse camera for example ..
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
All valid points thank you.

I’m not a great believer in warranties. My principal assets are all 100+ years old and well out of warranty. Warranties tie you to dealer servicing, paint inspections etc. I prefer to see the goods, trust my judgement and cross my fingers. Having said that there is the CRA, and I know how that works. I would also prefer to deal with a face at an accessible dealer, hence my possibly unjustified concern about internet sellers. I did once have to park a Disco in front of the dealer’s door and place the keys on the dealer principal’s desk, and that worked out OK.

Price: what is a fair price in present times? Supply and demand make an R a more attractive buy because there are a lot more around, so they are cheaper relatively, but I don’t want to buy bells & whistles that I don’t need, or end up with a more complex car than is necessary, hence more expensive to repair long term. I spend a lot of my life in a car and I keep them for a long time so I am more interested in how the car performs and how reliable it is.

Reason suggests waiting until present supply problems ease but I have other reasons to buy in the next month or so, and the partial balancing factor is that my present car will probably sell better at the moment. It’s all a matter of balance, and over say 150,000 miles a slight difference in initial cost becomes a lesser concern.

Options: I make a list of what matters and check the car physically. Dealer lists are notoriously incorrect!

Thanks again.

BG
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks again to those who contributed sage advice in this thread, and to all posters for such an informative forum.

I finally found a car to fit the bill, a Christmas 2019 R Line Tech 286 in black with factory fit towbar and TWIN 600 watt Bosch fans. It also complied with another major requirement: it had an early first oil change, which was not the case with many of the cars I wasted time looking at. I wasn’t planning to go up to the Tech spec, being a bit of a technophobe, but I’m getting the hang of it and enjoying the car.

I only took delivery a week ago and haven’t towed with it yet (this coming weekend probably) but have done 1200 miles so far including jobs in Cornwall and North Yorkshire, and so far I can’t really find anything to dislike. I even got 39mpg on a fast, heavily loaded dash back from Falmouth, which is a regular run where the Shogun would only manage about 27 unless the prevailing wind was blowing well.

As warned I do find it a little bit jiggly on the 20” wheels on bumpy urban roads and Cornish lanes (it’s on springs; didn’t want air) although it still seems to ride better overall than the Shogun did on 18” wheels. I am considering changing to 18’s since the opinion seems to be that this will improve the ride. Is there anybody out there who would like a nice set of unmarked 20” Nevadas (?) in exchange for a good set of 18” rims? The present Bridgestone Alenzas have got quite a lot of tread left so I may run those for the summer or until I can find some nice 18” wheels.
BG
 

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Sounds good a very similar to mine. I also have pano roof comfort access and seats etc. What'd this about the early oil change how many miles has yours done? Mins on 35k
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Sounds good a very similar to mine. I also have pano roof comfort access and seats etc. What'd this about the early oil change how many miles has yours done? Mins on 35k
Hi,

It had 24 on the odo when I bought it, which was rather more than I had hoped for, but it had a first oil change at about 7400 miles, which is not too bad in my book. I am a bit old fashioned and still believe in an early oil change on a new engine, and then very regular oil changes thereafter.

VW seem to have confused some dealers with their “fixed” and “flexible” service regimes, and there are some who seem to think that 18,000 miles before a first oil change is normal. I even saw one that had not had its first oil change at 23,000 miles. Whatever, I don’t want a car that has not had a reasonably early first oil change.

I did look at one with a pano roof: very nice and airy, but I was reminded that one of the big problems with my Discoveries was leaking roofs, and I hardly ever opened the roof on the Shogun because it was too noisy. I believe Tregs can suffer from leaky roofs in time, and I tend to keep my cars a while. With AC you hardly need one anyway. So personally I am happier without. The only good thing about Disco sunroofs was that they were easy to rip off. We somersaulted and rolled a TD5 on the M5 once (not me driving!) and it ended up on its side with all doors jammed, but a kind man ripped out one sunroof so we could get out.

I don’t think mine has got much in the way of options, but with all the looking I have been doing I got a bit confused over specs. The main thing was the f/f towbar/fans, and cars with those were very difficult to find.

BG
 
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