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I have had 2 Touareg R-Lines before my lovely new black 2017 spec 262 R-Line Plus delivered in Dec 16. With the previous cars, I have driven steadily and achieved pretty good economy in the past (around 35-38mpg, sometimes around 40). My journeys mostly tend to be motorways and 100 to 200 miles each time.

I was very disappointed with the new car only achieving 25-28mpg at first and (now it has covered 1700 miles) around 30mpg. All similar driving to the above.

On top of this it has a very annoying tendancy to change down from 8th to 7th gear when you want to make minor speed adjustments. For example, driving along at 70mph, you might have to ease off slightly for a second or two to adjust the distance to the car ahead and then the instant you apply the throttle again (just the tiniest amount), to bring the car back to 70mph (from say 65mph) the car changes down to 7th gear and then straight back to 8th.

It's not just at that speed either - any speed where the car is cruising in 8th, the slightest touch on the throttle causes 7th gear to be selected. I believe this is causing the poor fuel economy too.

The dealer has carried out the requisite resets and VW technical have advised them to compare with another similar 2017 car. We tried with a 2016 model and this behaved like my previous ones, that is remained in 8th until the throttle was pressed down significantly.

Has anyone with the 2017 software experienced this and what are your thoughts please?

And that new Start/Stop stopping the car when it is still moving at 2 or 3 mph should not be allowed. I find it dangerous as the power steering is gone the instamt the engine is stopped.

Just to add - I am referring D8 and D7. I am not in sport mode.
 

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I have had 2 Touaregs R-Lines before my lovely new black 2017 spec 262 R-Line Plus delivered in Dec 16. With the previous cars, I have driven steady and achieved pretty good economy in the past (around 35-38mpg, sometimes around 40). My journeys mostly tend to be motorways and 100 to 200 miles each time.

I was very disappointed with the new car only achieving 25-28mpg at first and (now it has covered 1700 miles) around 30mpg. All similar driving to the above.

On top of this it has a very annoying tendancy to change down from 8th to 7th gear when you want to make minor speed adjustments. For example, driving along at 70mph, you might have to ease of slightly for a second or two to adjust the distance to the car ahead and then the instant you apply the throttle again (just the tiniest amount), to bring the car back to 70mph (from say 65mph) the car changes down to 7th gear and then straight back to 8th.

It's not just at that speed either - any speed where the car is cruising in 8th, the slightest touch on the throttle causes 7th gear to be selected. I believe this is causing the poor fuel economy too.

The dealer has carried out the requisite resets and VW technical have advised them to compare with another similar 2017 car. We tried with a 2016 model and this behaved like my previous ones, that is remained in 8th until the throttle was pressed down significantly.

Has anyone with the 2017 software experienced this and what are your thoughts please?

And that new Start/Stop stopping the car when it is still moving at 2 or 3 mph should not be allowed. I find it dangerous as the power steering is gone the instamt the engine is stopped.
Hi SKS , and welcome to myTreg.com; that's a nice setup you have there!

If you could put your vehicle details in your signature that would help members with model specific issues.

Some tips to make your visit here more enjoyable:

To search use google with; [site:www.mytreg.com <search words>] for your questions as they may have been asked before, please beware that the site search needs 4 or more letter words, (no limit with the Google search).

Please post your question once in the appropriate discussion forum appropriate to your model and use the topic title & description to briefly summarise the problem. This will assist others and provide for a quicker response. Be patient and a knowledgeable member or guest will address your question.

New members and guests can use the 'View New Content' link next to the 'Search' link top right of the info bar, as a great way to see all of the posts you have missed since you were last on the forum.

Although you already have your Touareg; please read this excellent buyers guide as it will familiarise you with common issues you may experience during the ownership of your vehicle.

Every member has a gallery area in their profile and we love to see photos of your Touareg in action.

Kind Regards
The Admin Team.
 

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Have you tried a gearbox reset? Only takes 10 seconds.
 

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No indication of this fault on mine and I tend to drive at around 65mph most of the time roads permitting. Your comparison as advised by VW technical seems to confirm there is a fault, what are they proposing to do next?
 

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I have had 2 Touaregs R-Lines before my lovely new black 2017 spec 262 R-Line Plus delivered in Dec 16. With the previous cars, I have driven steady and achieved pretty good economy in the past (around 35-38mpg, sometimes around 40). My journeys mostly tend to be motorways and 100 to 200 miles each time.

I was very disappointed with the new car only achieving 25-28mpg at first and (now it has covered 1700 miles) around 30mpg. All similar driving to the above.

On top of this it has a very annoying tendancy to change down from 8th to 7th gear when you want to make minor speed adjustments. For example, driving along at 70mph, you might have to ease of slightly for a second or two to adjust the distance to the car ahead and then the instant you apply the throttle again (just the tiniest amount), to bring the car back to 70mph (from say 65mph) the car changes down to 7th gear and then straight back to 8th.

It's not just at that speed either - any speed where the car is cruising in 8th, the slightest touch on the throttle causes 7th gear to be selected. I believe this is causing the poor fuel economy too.

The dealer has carried out the requisite resets and VW technical have advised them to compare with another similar 2017 car. We tried with a 2016 model and this behaved like my previous ones, that is remained in 8th until the throttle was pressed down significantly.

Has anyone with the 2017 software experienced this and what are your thoughts please?

And that new Start/Stop stopping the car when it is still moving at 2 or 3 mph should not be allowed. I find it dangerous as the power steering is gone the instamt the engine is stopped.
Hi!

I have the same Treg as you, and i have experied the same thing with changing down from 8th to 7th gear all to quickly. I have now being driving it for about 8000Km and the gearbox is much better and not shifting down so quickly anymore.
I was concerned in the beginning but it was changing the behavior in about 5000Km and geting much better now.

The consumption has also being better now, about 0,75-0,8 Litres per 10Km compared to 0,8-0,95 the first 5000Km

Please excuse me for my poor English..

Regards
Jörgen.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure I am, as I don't even own a Treg yet), but 8th gear will be an 'overdrive' gear and I doubt it'd be used for any acceleration, just cruising at a constant speed? Hence why the drop down then back up? The more gears, the more changes....That's just my thinking, I'm sure someone with much more xperience in these will be alone very soon...

Maybe it's just updated software that makes the box act more efficiently?
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure I am, as I don't even own a Treg yet), but 8th gear will be an 'overdrive' gear and I doubt it'd be used for any acceleration, just cruising at a constant speed? Hence why the drop down then back up? The more gears, the more changes....That's just my thinking, I'm sure someone with much more xperience in these will be alone very soon...

Maybe it's just updated software that makes the box act more efficiently?
Modern cars have several "overdrive" gears, not just top gear - my 2016 model year Touareg doesn't change down out of D8 readily even under moderate acceleration - indeed, it'll hold D8 towing most of the time.

I wonder how much throttle is being used - I find that overtaking a 40mph vehicle in a 60mph limit gets me up to the wrong side of 80mph even on part throttle, using the principle of "out & back" as quickly as possible - if I used full throttle, I'm sure it would change down more.
 

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Notwithstanding VW's reaction to ensure that no more of their cars fall foul of emission regs, I'm wondering if VW have applied some software changes to the current vehicles which is adversely affecting consumption and performance.

The coasting function may well explain the low speed drive disengagement and this is not something I have experience of or would desire in my car.

I'm with chaser here - what is your dealer going to do about it


Have a read up on UK consumer law - the Consumer Rights Act 2015 which gives you a right of rejection as well as replacement or repair. Remember your contract is with the selling dealer, not VW


http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-rights-act
 

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I potter around all day 50-60 which just gets you into 8th, on flat roads slow acceleration I pop into 8th generally at 50 or 51, it will then happily sit there unless i get a load from a hill, if i live dangerous and accelerate with patience up to 70,80 it will stay in 8th of course a more pressing change will result in a drop but that is rare.
 

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Thanks to all for their commnents.

I notice that some people are saying their cars stay in 8th when gently accelerating. My previous two 245 R-Lines did as well as did the 2016 model I drove this week at the dealership (which was put forward by them as a comparator).

VW technical have since apparently advised the master tech at the dealership that there has been a significant change in software from the 2016 to the 2017 model and they have now firmly pointed the tech away from comparing with the 2016 model and said they must compare with another 2017 example. I don't recall the exact software version numbers that the master tech mentioned to me but it was something like the 2016 model has 2.8.something and mine has 3.1.something... That kind of change in major version number suggests significant changes.

What I forgot to mention in my first post is this: When using the cruise control lever to add 5mph (e.g. from 65-70mph), the car remains in 8th as I would expect. The acceleration, as experienced with my previous Touaregs, is fairly rapid, taking just 3 or 4 seconds to add 5mph. Trying to do this instead with your right foot, without the car changing down to 7th, is impossible, however gentle I try to ease my foot down on the throttle. I asked the dealership whether they felt this suggested a throttle position sensor fault? Their reaction was that they must follow the instructions from VW technical.

You can also "hold" the car in 7th, without gaining speed, with the right foot as the only way it pops back to 8th is by easing off again. Like with anything, you get the "feel" of the throttle. When you do this it gives you chance to glance at the current consumption and note that it has dropped by about 25% and this is I believe where the poor economy is coming from.

Can you still do a gearbox reset on this model NoobyT? I believe they should have done this anyway as instructed by VW technical - the dealership seems to not act on its own but follows the step by step instructions of VW, however painstakingly drawn out this may seem to be.

Regarding rejection Cass - the car is on contract hire from VW Finance. I raised several concerns well within 30 days of receipt of the car and as yet several remain outstanding:

Start/Stop kicks in while the car is stil rolling (which I now gather is a new standard "feature").
The car changes between 8th and 7th and back to 8th sometimes even when the right foot moves slightly going over a bump or undulation in the road. It always changes when making minor speed adjustments at around 70mph (110kph).
The fuel economy is dreadful compared to previous experience of driving 100,000 miles in two earlier 245 R-Lines.

Once we got past the ususal "it's the way you drive" comments and they tested and reported no fault found, they started to take my suggestion of rejection of the car more seriously. Time is moving on though and I fear they are just making efforts to prove it is merely a characteristic of the 2017 car meaning there is no fault. Hence, my reason for asking for the opinions of others.

The dealership are next going to drive a 2017 model and report back their findings. Rejecting the car is a last resort as I need a car for business and waiting for another new Touareg is a non-starter. However, I am very close to doing this and buying something second hand which would be a massive shame.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Hi!

I have the same Treg as you, and i have experied the same thing with changing down from 8th to 7th gear all to quickly. I have now being driving it for about 8000Km and the gearbox is much better and not shifting down so quickly anymore.
I was concerned in the beginning but it was changing the behavior in about 5000Km and geting much better now.

The consumption has also being better now, about 0,75-0,8 Litres per 10Km compared to 0,8-0,95 the first 5000Km

Please excuse me for my poor English..

Regards
Jörgen.
Jorglund your English is fine and thank you for your reply.

Did you ask your dealer to investigate why the car was changing down to 7th so quickly?
 

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Regarding rejection Cass - the car is on contract hire from VW Finance. I raised several concerns well within 30 days of receipt of the car and as yet several remain outstanding:

Start/Stop kicks in while the car is stil rolling (which I now gather is a new standard "feature").
The car changes between 8th and 7th and back to 8th sometimes even when the right foot moves slightly going over a bump or undulation in the road. It always changes when making minor speed adjustments at around 70mph (110kph).
The fuel economy is dreadful compared to previous experience of driving 100,000 miles in two earlier 245 R-Lines.

Once we got past the ususal "it's the way you drive" comments and they tested and reported no fault found, they started to take my suggestion of rejection of the car more seriously. Time is moving on though and I fear they are just making efforts to prove it is merely a characteristic of the 2017 car meaning there is no fault. Hence, my reason for asking for the opinions of others.

The dealership are next going to drive a 2017 model and report back their findings. Rejecting the car is a last resort as I need a car for business and waiting for another new Touareg is a non-starter. However, I am very close to doing this and buying something second hand which would be a massive shame.
VW will act as a conduit and advise the dealer which tasks to perform, however it is likely that they will eventually report that the car is driving normally.

There are clear differences between the T3 and the T4 and you are not the first owner to complain about poor/reduced fuel consumption from the T4. I doubt that VW would formally explain the difference in operating firmware/software but it could be related to the recent VW emissions scandal and the changes VW have needed to make to comply with the regulations.

I would put the dealer on notice, in writing, that you are considering formally rejecting this car. This may speed up theirresponse to undertaking their own driving assessment of the T4, However inconvenient it may be, you either stick with the current car and await the lead from VW in incremental fault finding, which may or may not assist/remedy your complaint, or you reject it and move on. The longer you leave it or prevaricate, the weaker your position becomes.

I'm sure that in the case if the T3, the gear ratios of 7 and 8 are less than 6, so they are essentially 'overdrive' gears which give the car better mpg when cruising. That may well also be the case with the T4 but it seems that the drivability is different due to the current firmware/software deployed.

You might find that writing to the consumer editor of a premium motoring magazine helps in pushing the matter on, but at that stage, VW and the dealer will most likely cease communicating with you.

Best advice is to firmly decide what you want to do and stick with it - delaying just weakens your hand and may force you into a compromise. Whatever you decide, put your decision in writing and give the dealer a fixed time to resolve the issue, say 7 or 14 days. This is fair to them and you.
 

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VW will act as a conduit and advise the dealer which tasks to perform, however it is likely that they will eventually report that the car is driving normally.

There are clear differences between the T3 and the T4 and you are not the first owner to complain about poor/reduced fuel consumption from the T4. I doubt that VW would formally explain the difference in operating firmware/software but it could be related to the recent VW emissions scandal and the changes VW have needed to make to comply with the regulations.

I would put the dealer on notice, in writing, that you are considering formally rejecting this car. This may speed up theirresponse to undertaking their own driving assessment of the T4, However inconvenient it may be, you either stick with the current car and await the lead from VW in incremental fault finding, which may or may not assist/remedy your complaint, or you reject it and move on. The longer you leave it or prevaricate, the weaker your position becomes.

I'm sure that in the case if the T3, the gear ratios of 7 and 8 are less than 6, so they are essentially 'overdrive' gears which give the car better mpg when cruising. That may well also be the case with the T4 but it seems that the drivability is different due to the current firmware/software deployed.

You might find that writing to the consumer editor of a premium motoring magazine helps in pushing the matter on, but at that stage, VW and the dealer will most likely cease communicating with you.

Best advice is to firmly decide what you want to do and stick with it - delaying just weakens your hand and may force you into a compromise. Whatever you decide, put your decision in writing and give the dealer a fixed time to resolve the issue, say 7 or 14 days. This is fair to them and you.
There does though seem to be a difference between T4s from 2014-2016 model years and the current T4 2017 model year.

If this is a software update to comply more fully with Euro 6, then I, and others, would have concerns that this update may be applied retrospectively to the 2014-2016 T4s next time the car is in for service.
 

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VW technical have since apparently advised the master tech at the dealership that there has been a significant change in software from the 2016 to the 2017 model and they have now firmly pointed the tech away from comparing with the 2016 model and said they must compare with another 2017 example. I don't recall the exact software version numbers that the master tech mentioned to me but it was something like the 2016 model has 2.8.something and mine has 3.1.something... That kind of change in major version number suggests significant changes.
My car is a 2017 model year built in week 40/2016. TCM sofware version can be checked with VCDS scan as below.

--
Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels: 0C8-927-755.clb
Part No SW: 0C8 927 755 C HW: 0C8 927 755
Component: AL1000 AISIN 130 2881
Coding: 010100011C008400000000000000000000000000
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMAL991031 003118
ROD: EV_TCMAL991031_003.rod
VCID: 316D58AE60D8B0CA76-8064

No fault code found.
--

Now you've got me hoping this turns out to be a fault and not software related. I'll be watching this thread and any others on this subject...i've got a car i'm happy with and dont want VW ruining it !
If need be ill fit a lock on the diagnostic port when it goes in for service to prevent them updating.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
VW will act as a conduit and advise the dealer which tasks to perform, however it is likely that they will eventually report that the car is driving normally.

There are clear differences between the T3 and the T4 and you are not the first owner to complain about poor/reduced fuel consumption from the T4. I doubt that VW would formally explain the difference in operating firmware/software but it could be related to the recent VW emissions scandal and the changes VW have needed to make to comply with the regulations.

I would put the dealer on notice, in writing, that you are considering formally rejecting this car. This may speed up theirresponse to undertaking their own driving assessment of the T4, However inconvenient it may be, you either stick with the current car and await the lead from VW in incremental fault finding, which may or may not assist/remedy your complaint, or you reject it and move on. The longer you leave it or prevaricate, the weaker your position becomes.

I'm sure that in the case if the T3, the gear ratios of 7 and 8 are less than 6, so they are essentially 'overdrive' gears which give the car better mpg when cruising. That may well also be the case with the T4 but it seems that the drivability is different due to the current firmware/software deployed.

You might find that writing to the consumer editor of a premium motoring magazine helps in pushing the matter on, but at that stage, VW and the dealer will most likely cease communicating with you.

Best advice is to firmly decide what you want to do and stick with it - delaying just weakens your hand and may force you into a compromise. Whatever you decide, put your decision in writing and give the dealer a fixed time to resolve the issue, say 7 or 14 days. This is fair to them and you.
I completely agree with Cass. I feel in a weaker position day by day! I will see what Monday brings. Hopefully the news that the 2017 they try is not behaving like mine but as we expect that will not be the case. I can't live with it as is so will have to reject and as you say, move on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
My car is a 2017 model year built in week 40/2016. TCM sofware version can be checked with VCDS scan as below.

--
Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels: 0C8-927-755.clb
Part No SW: 0C8 927 755 C HW: 0C8 927 755
Component: AL1000 AISIN 130 2881
Coding: 010100011C008400000000000000000000000000
Shop #: WSC 31414 790 00001
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMAL991031 003118
ROD: EV_TCMAL991031_003.rod
VCID: 316D58AE60D8B0CA76-8064

No fault code found.
--

Now you've got me hoping this turns out to be a fault and not software related. I'll be watching this thread and any others on this subject...i've got a car i'm happy with and dont want VW ruining it !
If need be ill fit a lock on the diagnostic port when it goes in for service to prevent them updating.
I will update this thread so you and others can be reassured (one way or the other).

Mine was built week 45 of 2016.

Is there another way to get that version info without VCDS (which I don't have)? Would there be a code or something on the label in the handbook for instance which at least would indicate the version it was delivered with?

Just to be absolutely clear though, I take it you can accelerate in 8th at 65-70mph and the car remains in 8th (unless you apply significant throttle when it would change down to 7th or even 6th of course). I am sure (and hopeful) that is going to be a yes....
 

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I don't know of any other way of checking the software version.
Yes I have read your symptoms carefully and can confirm that I don't experience the unnecessary downshifts at all. In fact in this respect it doesn't drive any differently to my previous 2014 245 R Line.
 

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I don't recall the exact software version numbers that the master tech mentioned to me but it was something like the 2016 model has 2.8.something and mine has 3.1.something... That kind of change in major version number suggests significant changes.
A major revision number semantically indicates a breaking change i.e. a non-compatibility. Typically in software this would indicate an API revision that is not backwards compatible. In controller software, this might indicate that it requires a specific hardware set up and would not work on prior hardware. In plain English this suggests the software for the 2017 version would not work on 2016 version (and probably vice versa).
 

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A major revision number semantically indicates a breaking change i.e. a non-compatibility. Typically in software this would indicate an API revision that is not backwards compatible. In controller software, this might indicate that it requires a specific hardware set up and would not work on prior hardware. In plain English this suggests the software for the 2017 version would not work on 2016 version (and probably vice versa).
Depends on the supplier - new Windows versions don't generally require new hardware - my PC security system has been continuously upgraded from 5 to 9.
 

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This is an interesting thread. My car has been in the hands of VW twice lately and they've confirmed it's all up to date on software. I wouldn't swear by it but I'm not sure the mpg is the same.

I haven't noticed the 8th gear issue at cruising speed. Doing a few hundred miles next Friday and will test.

However the auto stop start is a disaster. Barely ever kicks in but when it does it's when the car is still moving as you slow down. The issue this has is not only power steering kicks off but the car shudders to a stop rather than smoothly stopping. If you ease off the pedal to allow a smoother stop the engine reengages which is as equally annoying. Stop start should not be kicking in while moving. Ridiculous. Any way to change this
 
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