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18'' wheels for Altitude?

10K views 41 replies 12 participants last post by  stu 
#1 ·
Hi - first post. Thanks for

My wife has 2007 Altitude v6 TDi which is great in all respects ... except that it is embarrasingly useless off-road in winter. Friends have Discos and Japanese things which are vastly better on mud/snow etc.

It has standard 19'' 275/45 wheels and tyres and i would like to buy a set of 18'' wheels. Problem is, i have given up trying to get an answer from VW as to whether 18'' wheels will fit around the brake calipers etc.

If i can fit some 18'' wheels with higher profile 255 width Grabber tyres (or thinner?), i think it should be vastly improved. I would keep the 19'' wheels and road tyres for summer use.

Fianally, if 18'' wheels are not possible on the Altitude, could anyone confirm whether you can buy Grabbers in 19'' 275/45 size - i was told not.

Apologies if this has already been discussed - i couldn't find any thread.

Please help!!!

j.
 
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#2 ·
Welcome,

There are some on here running 255 width tires, but it's an unusual size, and removes 'protection' of tyre over hang for curbs.

275 seems to be an unusual size too from the main manufacturers, so a lot of us are running 285 45 19s in Hankook Ventus form

18" will fit your truck, as they're the standard for the Altitude, AFAIK, brakes should be no different to those fitted with 17" wheels too.

I'm surprised that you find the Treg useless in winter and offroad, so many here have had the privilege of an offroad day and have seen what the car is capable of - but tyres are a big factor. Grabbers are used by the Touareg Unlimited team so many here have adopted them for all year use.

This is a good rough guide to changes of tyre size and the effects:
http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

Treg with Grabbers: (about the 6th car that's gone up, so a little muddy and road tyres)
 
#3 · (Edited by Moderator)
discovery 3/4 and range rovers run on 19 and 20" rims and they manage ok off road!! you can buy tyres in 19" for the treg with heavier tread patterns if you like.

to be honest off road driving is an art and alot of it is up to the driver not the car.
 
#4 ·
Thanks for that Hipflyguy. I like the video. Showing my ignorance, but what is AFAIK?

The situation wasn't helped last winter by the fact that our Treg was on 1/2 worn standard 275 width continentals which don't seem to have a hint of off-road tread about them. The car (more of a 2.5 tonne sledge actually) was positively dangerous in the snow and was abandoned in our field for 2 weeks as my Audi quattro was so much better!

I figured that fitting 18'' rims over winter with some proper (narrower) offroad tyres would make the biggest difference. You say 18'' are standard on the Altitude? - i am sure ours came as standard with 19''. As long as the brakes are the same as standard Tregs, as you say, 18'' should fit fine. It was my dreaded VW dealer who said they might not fit over the brakes.

Do you know if grabbers/hankooks are much noisier on-road? That was my other reason for getting a winter set of 18'' - so the car is not compromised in terms of noise/grip all year round. I only go off road in winter (shooting season!).

However, If grabbers/hankooks are not too noisy, i might try them on my 19'' wheels first as a cheaper option. Do you know if you can you get 275 or 285 width 19'' grabbers? - a tyre dealer told me they may produce them later this year.

Last question - would 18'' wheels go straight on or are there issues with offset etc - It all seems very complicated to me!!!

Sorry for all the questions - thanks for your help.

J.
 
#8 ·
I figured that fitting 18'' rims over winter with some proper (narrower) offroad tyres would make the biggest difference. You say 18'' are standard on the Altitude? - i am sure ours came as standard with 19''.
Yep, 19" wheels standard on the T2 Altitude - at least on the 2009 variant.

Cass
 
#6 ·
before i bought the Treg i used to run my discovery on grabber A/T 2's all the time. they are a superb all round tyre especially if you do some off road stuff.

they are quiet, hard wearing, great grip and excellent value for money. the best thing is that they come in standard size which is 255x55x18, which is treg size!!!

you could buy a set of 18" rims and fit with A/T's and just leave them on all year round if you wanted.
 
#13 ·
I will start scanning ebay for some winter 18'' wheels. I presume all TReg 18'' wheels have the same stud/bolt pattern?
AFAIK you will need to check - I'm sure the 2.5 model PCD differs from the 3.0 variant.

Cass
 
#12 · (Edited by Moderator)
i usually go to one of my local garages as my mate is the owner and does me good deals, but you could try shopping around with local garages or as stated camskill or black circles is another good online company.

event tyres dont venture into the northern end of gods county.

where you from jono?
 
#14 ·
Cheers for that - i'll try Black Circles. A mate also mentioned Micheldever tyres in Hampshire - or somewhere like that. Seems a long way away to me but apparently they are v. cheap even with the delivery costs.

Near Ripley/Hampsthwaite, north of Harrogate, Stu.
 
#16 · (Edited by Moderator)
From past experience looking for a set of wheels, and from questions others have asked about fitment of various sets of wheels for sale, I think you will find there are far more 2.5 Tdi wheels around which only fit that car which has VW Transporter hubs from the parts bin so you will need to check you get the right wheels for your 3.0. If you ask "What car did the wheels come off?" and the seller tells you it was a 2.5, they will not fit your car.

It was me driving in that clip - I just didn't give it quite enough welly the first time! But the car's performance during the day on Grabber UHPs in thick mud, ruts, and so on, converted me to them. They are quieter and more comfortable too than the Contis they replaced though I have a little more sidewall than some as I'm on 255/60/17's. Two neighbouring farmers have General Grabber AT2 fitted but I go everywhere they do - and more - and the VW demo team had only one Treg fitted out with the AT2s - their winch car which was needed once [but not by me!].

During the snow, you still have to be sensible: 2.5 tonnes on black ice still obeys the laws of physics regardless of what tyres are on it - but we had well over a foot and the car went everywhere I wanted it too [but then so did a little Suzuki Swift on Vredestein winter tyres!!].

If you have snow and ice to contend with on a regular basis, then I would recommend a proper winter tyre such as the Vredestain. These are different to "mud and snow tyres" as they have more silicone in them so they remain flexible at much lower temperatures and they also have lots of sipes to give better grip in icey conditions. Fom what I'm reading in your posts, I think I'd go this route personally. We don't have enough snowfall to warrant what I had originally intended - a spare set of wheel with Vreedesteins - which is why I went the Grabber UHP route.

As for tyre suppliers - Micheldever used to get good write-ups and offer excellent prices [Honest John, Daily Telegraph]. This has not been my experience lately and I'm a firm fan of event-tyres.co.uk [and so too is Honest John now] - and not just because I'm almost next door to one of their depots as they only do fittings at your home or business so I've never been in their yard!

I found a good supplier of Vredesteins in Hull [probably where the ferry lands the tyre trailers!] so give them a whirl too if you want:

http://www.tyremen.co.uk/vredestein_tyres.html

Anyway, hope this helps.
 
#17 ·
Thanks for that Nooby - very helpful.

As you say, last winter was the first proper snow we have had for ages, so i am not sure snow tyres are warranted - unless this is the start of global cooling! Normally it is muddy hills that it has to contend with, where the Continentals are equally hopeless in my experience!

As the Treg has now chewed its way through another set of Continentals in very short order (ouch) and urgently needs another set, i think for now i will go for Grabber UHPs on the standard wheels like you and see how i get on. I thought they would be much noisier than the Contis but it seems not. I found a review which rates them highly in most respects -apart from on snow! http://www.tyretest.com/4x4_reifen/general/grabber_uhp/index.html

I've checked on the web and they seem to be available in 275/19/45 - the tyre dealer i spoke to must have been talking rubbish. Hipflyguy also mentioned 285/19/45 as an option, which i like the sound of as it should give a bit more sidewall protection against my wife's parking!! I take it these will fit on the same wheels? Will the extra width make it noticeably worse off road (in mud)? I think this would also make the speedo slightly slow as the overall diameter increases slightly, but i don't see this as a big problem.

Sorry for all the questions - again!
 
#18 ·
I've checked on the web and they seem to be available in 275/19/45 - the tyre dealer i spoke to must have been talking rubbish. Hipflyguy also mentioned 285/19/45 as an option, which i like the sound of as it should give a bit more sidewall protection against my wife's parking!! I take it these will fit on the same wheels? Will the extra width make it noticeably worse off road (in mud)? I think this would also make the speedo slightly slow as the overall diameter increases slightly, but i don't see this as a big problem.
For interest:
Originally had Michelin Diamaris - lasted 8k miles, then Pirelli Pzero's lasted 7k miles (scrubbing at 3) - all on 275x45x19

Now on Hankook Ventus RH06 at the slightly larger 285x45x19 - and using the miata tyre calc from my first post (originally a nooby find - my hero) it works out to being 1.2% too slow = at 60mph we're actually doing 60.7mph (speedo's off according to the sat nav anyway)

And the 285's really do help protect the rims.

Good luck chief - as you can see, this place is an amazing mine of information, opinion and personality.
 
#19 ·
Thanks Hipflyguy.

Yes the tyre wear is shocking isn't it. I get at least 20k out of most cars' tyres and only 10k from the TReg. Our's wears the outside of all 4 tyres more than the inside - do you find that?

Hankooks are another option and a mate of mine with a Range Rover also rates Pirelli Scorpions. Two reasons i am thinking of Grabbers are:

a) they are relatively cheap (i am a tight Yorkshireman!)
Reviews on this forum seem to suggest they last longer than most.

Do you go off road in winter and if so, do you reckon the 285 width reduces grip compared to 275? It's b....y wide for an off roader - Range Rovers /Discos are all 255 i think.

Quite agree - this site is great!

j
 
#24 ·
Do you go off road in winter and if so, do you reckon the 285 width reduces grip compared to 275? It's b....y wide for an off roader - Range Rovers /Discos are all 255 i think.
Not offroad, but with all the snow this year the Treg was the only car (other than a couple of Landies) that made it to the top carpark on the highest point in Hampshire to do a bit of sledging - and this was on the grabbers, plus didn't need the diff lock.

Think your problem is you're running Conti's - Porsche spec tyres for great on road grip, Pirreli Zero's were awesome too, but didn't last a year to find out what they would be like in the snow.

Not a Yorkshireman (although it's in my blood) and don't see why you need to splash out on things when you can buy cheaper and more practical hence the Hankooks -cheap, look great and should last 40k miles compared to 7.

Grabbers, Hankooks or Vredesteins should do you proud. try Camskill, or Event tyres.
Got ours from a local garage after I demanded they get a set in, although they were very unhappy fitting 285's instead of 275's saying it would ruin the car's driving, "it'll wander all over the place, but it's your call" = Utter shite, me thinks they wanted to sell another set of Pirelli's at 900+ quid.
 
#20 ·
i think the difference between 275 and 285 is negligible as in my opinion they are both too wide for any real off roading and too low a profile!! Tregs and Rangies Discos etc are fitted with these large wheels and tyres as bling things and are expected to stay on the road really and have as much off road ability as most would expect, but will still spin up on wet grass on the flat if not carfull!!

obviously a norrower tyre is better for going through mud and crap as has less resistance, a higher profile is also better for ground clearance if nothing else.

i think you need to decide exactly what the car will be doing and how much of it. just a question, but did you have any difficulties at all on the road during the winter in and around Harrogate?

just so that there is no confusion for me as well as others, you mentioned speedo readings. i was under the impression that it was profile eg height of the tyre that changed the rolling radius and not width. as long as you keep the tyre at the original rolling radius your speedo will be ok. so if you have a low profile 19" you could swap to a higher profile 17/18" and have the same overall size. or am i totally misunderstanding what has been said?
 
#21 ·
The height of the tyre wall can vary with changes in the width.

This explains it better than I can!

"The aspect ratio is the ratio of a tyre's width to it's sidewall height. A 70 series tyre, therefore, is a tyre whose sidewall height is equal to 70% of its width."

So if you increase the tyre width but keep the same aspect ratio, then the tyre wall height will change thus resulting in a different overall diameter and, therefore, another speedo variation.
 
#22 ·
Thanks Stu. I may go for some 285s then. I am sure you are right that they are both too wide. Last winter, only proper Land Rovers and a couple of Japanese 4x4 pick-ups with proper tyres could get around our shoot. The Treg made it about 4 feet into a field! The Landrovers were unstoppable.

Yes - even on the road we had a nightmare. I slid (fortunately slowly) backwards all the way down our drive into the gatepost at the bottom (still haven't had the bumper resprayed yet!) with all wheels locked. Even crawling down hills locked in 1st and no brakes, it would still turn into a sledge! This was repeated several times on other hills where other cars had no problems, including in the school car park in Birstwith where it took out a fence post. My wife refused to drive it and i was s......g myself before every journey! As mentioned, we ended up abandoning the Treg and used my Audi Quattro for 3 weeks, which was very impressive.

I actually wondered if the TReg's 4wd had packed up so got my wife to check that all 4 wheels were spinning. No problem there. I'm sure the problem was a combination of 2.5 tonnes, wide tyres and some pretty ropey road tyres. I'll see what difference some new Grabbers make before getting some thinner 18'' wheels.

I think we made a mistake with hindsight getting an Altitude - my wife's choice! It is great on road but seems to have sacrificed any off-road ability with its 'bling' wheels and tyres.

Anyway, we will get there in the end!

j
 
#25 ·
I think we made a mistake with hindsight getting an Altitude - my wife's choice! It is great on road but seems to have sacrificed any off-road ability with its 'bling' wheels and tyres.
Jono, I don't think you made a mistake getting the Altitude necessarily. I now use mine off road regularly and I can confirm that (for an averagely competent driver) it is more capable than an equivalent Defender - until ground clearance and articulation becomes an issue, obviously. Concur with HFG: your tyres maybe the issue. My P-Zero's were okay off road but now I have the Grabbers it's much, much better. Get some better tyres and then give it a go. Just watch your smart bodykit ...
 
#23 ·
the reason i asked about any road problems was because i have an SE with 18" wheels and i was unstopable through out the winter. i travelled every day and climbed up some of the worst hills around with no problems at all, also got back down them too. i thought the Treg was every bit as good as my Disco.

the only one episode i had was sorted out by four tesco bags for life, one infront of each wheel to let the old girl drive onto them gain traction and shoot up a steep incline of sheet ice. as you say you will get there though in the end.

Nooby thanks for sorting me out on the speedo front.
 
#27 ·
Thanks to all for your help. Had 4 new Grabbers fitted yesterday via Black Circles. Very impressive service and good value at £140 odd per tyre fitted. They certainly look to have some chunky treads on them. I haven't driven it yet but my wife says it drives and rides better now.

Just been in Mallorca for 2 weeks where i noticed Tregs are very popular! Nearly all V6 diesels in fairly basic spec.

Regards
 
#28 ·
A quick update. I've driven it quite a bit now and am well-impressed with the new Grabber UHPs. It drives better on the road and is quieter and rides slightly better. Also, the initial signs are that they are going to be much better off-road. We went camping in the lakes last weekend (a first) and stayed at a very slopey) camp site called side farm on Ullswater. It rained hard (as it always does in the lakes) and cars (mainly 2wd) were getting stuck left right and centre on the wet grass/mud. Our pitch was at the bottom of the steepest hill and i thought we were going to be stuck. No such problems - it romped up the hill with hardly a hint of wheel-spin. Not the hardest test maybe, but definitely a hundred times better than it was previously.

Got 31.1mpg on the way home - a new record!!

Regards
 
#29 ·
Jono,
Be very confident that Grabbers will get you out of all but the very worst situations.
If you look at some of the tests on our Touareg Unlimited Days you'll see how good the tyres are,most of the Tregs being on Grabbers.
Wet grass is like a walk in the park!
 
#30 · (Edited by Moderator)
Wet grass is one of the best tests because when the grass is crushed the sap comes out and lubricates the wet grass surface even more making it much harder for tyres to grip.

This is why you sometimes see 4x4s with high speed road tyres stuck on a relatively flat field, especially if the driver has wellied it to a standstill as the co-efficient of friction he has created under the wheels is more like wet ice and he's also filled what tyre tread he had in the first place with a nice slimey grass mix!

My half worn UHPs were good for a couple of hundred yards in at least a foot of mud last week and with no wheel tracks to follow either, just a complete mud bath cause by construction crawlers. And I didn't use the traction gizmo knob either - just D!
 
#31 ·
Sorry - an old thread i know but a quick update following the traumas of last winter!

The Grabber UHPs have been FANTASTIC in the foot or so of snow we have had recently. They are a revelation after the standard tyres and I can't recommend them highly enough! Best of all, they don't seem to be wearing at all!

I know they aren't a snow tyre, but they have got me up and down some pretty steep hills and seem to grip pretty well even on compacted snow/ice.

I've only got stuck once which, to be fair, was in a deep up-hill snowdrift and not many cars could have got through!

Thanks for your advice.

J

p.S. interested to see General launching the new Grabber AT tyres. Look forward to seeing some reviews.
 
#34 ·
Like you I'm a recent UHP convert and am also very impressed. I got them mainly for the smooth quiet ride quality but have also been greatly impressed with their performance in the snow. As I live up a very snowy farm track they come in very handy indeed.
 
#32 ·
The Grabber ATs are still en route and there is already a waiting list for the next container due before Christmas so if you want them your best chance is probably to order from Protyres.

http://www.protyre.co.uk/Default.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1

or AJS4x4

http://www.ajstyres.co.uk/index.html

I understand these are the retail arms of the General Tire importers - Southam Tyres, Southam, Warks.

They fit tyres there too, and are very good.

Protyres and AJS seem to be getting first chance at them.

Protyres offer free 4 wheel laser alignment and charge £30 per axle if tweaks are required.
 
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